*sigh*
We never really thought that our home building experience would lead to us learning how to tweet, or blog, but here we are! You see, when we decided to build a home rather than buy a 'used' home, we had many reasons in mind. First, purchasing a 'used' home would have cost a little less, but would have come with some (or a lot) of renovations and repairs to be done. Second, we had just finished renovating our condo, and didn't want anything to do with renovations or repairs for a long, long while! (We are sure that anyone who has ever renovated can understand this) And third, we wanted our house, complete with everything we wanted in a house, and maybe a little bit more.
When we finally made our move and purchased a house, we did a lot of research. We researched the companies, the developers, the neighbourhoods, we googled, we got word of mouth, we even canvased neighbourhoods. We stopped at nothing, looking into every corner and under every rug we could. When we finally chose Homes By Avi, we drove to every showhome that we could find, in Edmonton and Calgary. We inspected each house looking at the quality (one of us is a red seal carpenter, so experience and education is something we do have!).
We chose Homes By Avi because their reputation was solid. We chose Homes By Avi because any complaints about the quality and service were few and far between, and quite minor.
What we got however, has been our nightmare. No jokes.
We are not here to say that Homes By Avi is a bad builder, who builds crappy homes, who doesn't take care of their customers. Homes By Avi has built our house, and we are here to say that they have left a lot to be desired in our experience. The quality of our house can be judged in many ways. Yes, it is still standing and has no threats of falling apart any time soon. But, it has had more than its fair share of repairs and re-dos. For the most part, our house is an example what happens when a job isn't completed, when the i's aren't dotted, and the t's aren't crossed. The service that we have received has been unreliable, slow, repetitive, and required far too often. At every step of the way, we have met with managers due to the excessive amount of issues. We have met the sales manager, the customer service manager, the quality control manager, the construction manager and the warranty manager. And at the end of the day, it is still us who must push, follow up, and all too often, discover and fight for the real problem to be recognized so we don't get the Avi band-aid.
We put our deposit down on our house in May of 2009. We were excited to embark on our adventure of building our own house. But today, we are burned out. The issues our house has and has had, has affected us in ways we never would have imagined. When we drive up to our house, we don't look at our house and feel as though we are at home (heck, we still haven't unpacked...all attempts have been met with the need to repack for repairs), we don't look at our house fondly, thinking of the happy memories it represents. When we look at our house, we feel stress and anxiety, sadness with a hint of anger.
While we realise that our history can not be rewritten, we do realise that it can be written. It is time that we tell our story.
And tell it we will.
Welcome to our blog. Follow us on twitter - @AviNightmare Contact Homes By Avi, go ahead, ask for their part in our experience, let them know how it has affected your perspective on building a home.
At times, business' tend to treat each individual customer as just that, one individual customer. What they are missing out on, is how many friends we have told about our experiences, how many friends of friends of friends have now heard about our experiences, how many are reading about it via social media, and now, how many are reading about it on our blog.
We do appreciate you reading about our experiences. And we do appreciate you passing them on.
We promise to keep them as accurate as possible. We promise not everything will be included...so much has happened it is just hard to remember it all! And we promise to be fair.
We are not here to bash Homes By Avi, but we are here to tell our story.
We may even add a few pictures!
WOW! Big Company big issues. That is why working with a responsible and reasonable builder who you get to meet, who is on site, who is accountable to you the owner, and who is there to help you build your dream home is so important. Working through Sales people, sales managers, site supers, and the chain of command is the most frustrating part of building with these elephant companies. To slow to move and to big to change. You are a fly buzzing in the big ears. If you are not comfortable at any point you should go with your gut. So sorry to see and read this terrible situation. Great Advice.
ReplyDeleteWhat should someone do when they notice quality that is not acceptable? Do we just take lies from the sales and AVI crew? Is there anything we can do to fight back?
ReplyDeleteGood questions. We have asked ourselves these questions often. We have talked with a lawyer, and we have been reassured that we can only act on promises made in writing, particularly in a contract.
DeleteWe are not sure how to the most effective way for fighting back may be. We have chosen social media for fighting back. We are well aware that this happens to all people building, whether the promise is made by builders or developers. Homes By Avi prides themselves on their customers. Social Media has a lot of power and sway in today's world. What we put out their has the power to be heard by thousands. My blog has seen hits in all continents. Homes By Avi discovered my blog when a vendor for them in the US called them to question its validity. We can throw our experiences out there, and others can use it as they chose.
Perhaps it is really time for customers to join together and encourage changes to be made. We figure a huge change that needs to be made, is that customers MUST be able to agree that the final product is acceptable BEFORE the customer pays off the final amount, and if it is not, then the customer has the option to walk away, or renegotiate the price, all without a large financial loss (5% of total price is a lot, in Edmonton's market, this is at least $15000.00 - of which typically takes the average household years to save, if ever).
Changes will never be made unless people speak out about it. And unfortunetly, it seems as though not many people are willing or have the time to speak out.
As an individual, I'd say, never suck it up. Demand everything in writing with signatures. Take pictures of everything, show pictures of everything. Contracts subject to a professional independent inspection, at ALL points (framing, mechanical, insulating at the very least). Ensure that the aforementioned inspections are completed by someone experienced in this field, who knows Alberta's building codes and is familiar with residential work. Record everything. Times, dates, names, everything. The more detailed you are, the more you second guess them, the better you will be.
Oh, but most importantly, find a good psychologist. You may need someone to keep you from the insanity and stress that is involved. We survived without, but by the skin of our teeth (and sucking a lot up).
Hope this helps!
We have been our Home by Avi house in Summerside, Edmonton for 3 months and are still trying to get issues dealt with. It seems to take weeks for them to get back to us. Carpet is not attached properly in areas, holes under stairs in drywall and our finished basement is FREEZING. I do love the house and it was a good building experience but it seems once we took position of the house we are put at the bottom of the list....very frustrated!!!!
ReplyDeleteI feel your pain...and I wish we would offer you hope for the future...but we can't! May marks 3 years that we have lived in our house, and we are still waiting for structural warranty work to be completed...and this warm weather has only brought on another occurence of our leaky windows (which had supposedly been fixed!).
DeleteI strongly advise that you contact Alberta New Home Warranty. Contact Homes By Avi. Don't hesitate to contact management. Contact your lawyer, see if you can withhold any amounts of your morgage until the work is completed. Yes, once you purchase your house you do tend to fall to the bottom of the list...but the longer you live in that house, the farther your name falls on the list.
It is stressful as hell. But in the end, remember you paid for that house, or will be for the next how many decades...don't give up.
Good luck!
My husband and I are thinking of building with Homes by Avi in Austin, TX. Have you heard from any happy/unhappy customers in that market? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteWe are buying a spec home, and are under a lot of pressure. We don't know if we should buy the home because we have no idea how the house will look whatsoever. So if anyone can guide us, please please do. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteIf you feel pressure - use extreme caution! This is a HOUSE you are buying! We never took a moment to forget that this is one house for the company, HOWEVER, it is one house that may take the next 30 years for us to pay off! After our experience building our house, we would never build a house again, sight unseen. But that is our opinion. There is no dealing after you signed for the house. You get a lemon (as we did), you get a lemon. No one comes to you to offer you money back because they did a poor job, a mistake, or took longer than anticipated! As another has suggested, rent in the area...there are a lot of random builders that do come into neighbourhoods once the development has been established. Whoever you choose - you should feel 100% comfortable with them, their staff, and most importantly - your decisions!
DeleteBut, we do suggest the following -
NEVER use their 'people'! Use your own inspectors and lawyers! When you pay the bill, they work for you, not your builder!
ALWAYS add to your contract additional inspections along the line! Contact an inspector (a qualified person you have done your research on!) previous to signing of the contract, get an idea of when it is ideal for them to inspect the house (mid-way mechanical inspection is ideal, and of course a final inspection!).
Talk to your lawyer and consider adding additional clauses to the contract if possible! They will have an idea of what to put in place before you buy!
Ensure you have access to the property at the very least once a week...ideally...whenever you want!
And always - always - follow your instincts! When in doubt question!
Hope this helps!
Rent until you have done your homework while living there with areas, developers and builders. You do not have to feel pressured to buy immediately. When you make the decision you should feel confident and happy with your decision...and new home...not stressed! There will be local builders you are not even aware of now that you will discover.
ReplyDeleteJust helped some friends move into an Avi house in Edmonton. As I'm moving the stuff in, Telus technician is wondering what to do with his line, the basement is finished and he can't get the wire into the basement. As I'm a finishing carpenter since 85, working for a major builder, I take my tools out and cut an access.
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm surprised that there is NO ISULATION at the Rim Joist/header area, none whatsoever, feel the draft coming in, maybe they just missed the area? as it is over the power panel, that is a possibility. Take a look at the furnace room and low and behold, no insulation at the top anywhere!, this really made me mad.
In order to "fix" the problem, and it is a BIG problem, (just wait until it's minus anything out there) there will have to be major ripping of the drywall and insulating, vapor barrier, drywall, taping, painting, stippling etc. I'm also wondering, considering that this "minor" detail was missed, how are the headers between the main floor and first floor insulated?
So who is at fault here? Avi must have some foreman that looks after things, he would be number one. 2, Insulator, 3, Drywaller that covered up what he knows all too well (Or should know) not to cover up as it's not up to standards. 4, Inspector for the City of Edmonton, an overpaid poor excuse of a civil fatcat!. 5, Foreman.
Is your AVI home properly insulated? and if this is happening at Avi, at what other builders is it going on also? The Telus technician was not surprised at the findings, listed other builders, Jayman, Surpised there? :)
You own a house, built by Avi or any other and is the floor at the perimeters really cold in winter? Have you checked your insulation?
Need to check your place to see if this was missed? You can contact me.
DeleteI am an insulator and Avi uses the "Emercor" (pre insulated rim joist) system in all of their builds. That is why there is no insulation/poly on the rim boards. The problem with this system is that there is NO supervision of the people (Framers) that are installing it. Framers don't understand building envelopes...unless you are LUCKY enough to get a guy that has 25+ years on the tools. Add to this the "first year apprentice" doing the HVAC install with a sawzall through the rim boards and no attempt being made at ensuring this is properly remediated? And you get exactly what you found when you opened this area up. Today's building industry is an exemplar of "King Ralph's" Shoot, Shovel. and Shut-Up! With the downturn we are (as an industry) are currently facing it is the perfect time to go ahead and build your house. The garbage trades are all sitting on the couch waiting for the phone to ring and the guys (like myself) are building quality houses. Food for thought.
Im not sure if you still follow this blog, however all these builders are the same. We had a nightmare experience with our fairly new Jman home. We were the second owners but found some serious building errors. The house at the time was only 5 years old so still fairly new. And what a run around it was to get it sorted, I probably spent dozens of hours on the phone and I found that everyone just washes their hands of the issues. Once you pay for the house everyone just puts their hands up, steps back and says "we crossed our Ts and dotted our i's" And they keep passing you off like a hot potato.
ReplyDeleteWe were looking at about 15-20,000 to right the problem but lucky that I am in construction and know that there was no way I was paying this bill.
Eventually I did some digging in the building codes for the year our home was built and found that there were some code violations. I then emailed the builder (do everything via email so you have a written record) and at the end of the day, they signed off on a home that has code violations and as the prime contractor they are directly responsible, no matter how much they try to push "warranty"
It took a light threat of court and how I was sure that the media would like to get wind of a high volume builder putting up this quality of work and walking away, eventually the work got done even though the house is no longer covered in warranty.
My advice to anyone else coming across this blog is to just stay resilient. Its a uphill fight and everyone is going to tell you you dont have a leg to stand on. However if there are code issues, such as no insulation in the other posters case you have the law on your side.
The Irony is that these builders try to get away with it and lots of the time they do, but if you were to find an issue with the house and then try to resell it because you cant be bothered, then you become liable for not disclosing the issue to the buyer.
And as I said everyone you turn to will just wash their hands and walk away.
You need to get all your evidence together, paperwork, reports from contractors or inspectors, pictures highlight code violations in the books and have a lawyer in your back pocket. Then approach the builder saying you have the media on speed dial and suddenly things get finished. Just dont go in unprepared. You gotta catch them on the back foot, keep all communication documented and keep pushing so they just do the work, dont let them find time to find loop holes.
Good luck
Thanks everyone for all the comments and information. I was considering building with Avi in Sherwood Park, but have now reconsidered. problem is, are all large builders the same?
ReplyDeleteI am buying home from Home by AVI in Calgary. It is being built.I am supposed to take possession in May. I have been to the site few times. Every time I found some structural defect. When I talk to sales guy, he says 'it is common', as if he is the site engineer and knows everything about structural engineering. There were cracks in the basement wall in the past. I found another crack in wall again. The sub comes and work by their own. The sub guy does his part and leaves. They have cracks in the wall. Without fixing that crack, they install sidings and dry walls. You can't complain about it. They don't have a site supervisor or engineer you can talk to. There should be a way to control these so called super builders.
ReplyDeleteWe moved into a 18 month old AVI home in Ambleside SW Edmonton. We thought we had a bought a dream, how wrong were we. We have been waiting for AVI to address problems with our basement floor for 25 weeks. We discovered cracks in our parging leading to cracks in our foundation wall.
ReplyDeleteshort vesion, AVI promised to fix the issues back in December 2014 and here we are in may 2015 still waiting. Mr Avi invited Alberta New Home Warranty to inspect our issues. After waiting 8 weeks we finally get a report saying the issues are not warrantable and now AVI. WILL DO NOTHING! A s our first Canadian home we are left annoyed, frustrated and very angry and disappointed that AVI will not stand behind their product. We will never buy and AVI again and will never praise AVI AS Their AFTERSALES CUSTOMER SERVICE IS APPAULING NOT TO MENTION full of false promises. It can all be fixed by Avi standing behind their product. The ball is your court!
Oh my goodness I wish I read all these before we bought from Homes by Avi. We have only been in Alberta for 7 months and they have made it the worst experience ever! Our home in Leduc Southfork still does not meet the city requirements and is non compliant! We have no permits, no yard, no deck no nothing. Just a deep dark crappy house. Hate it more everyday.
ReplyDeletePS - of course - no response from Avi
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI am about to finalizing a purchase agreement with HBA at Edgemont, Edmonton. After reading all these reviews, to be honest with you all, I am bit back off.
ReplyDeleteCurrently building a home in Sherwood park with Homes by Avi.
ReplyDeleteThe only good part of the whole experience has been interior selections.
The sales staff has been average and dealing with construction has been problematic. We are half way through the build and we will see how they finish the product.
Avi homes is terrible company, however the Jayman is the worth out there!!!
ReplyDeleteJust found this website. Was looking to build a home in Griesbach with HBA but I think I'm going to stay clear!
ReplyDeleteSearch all Homes & Condos For Sale in Edmonton & Surrounding areas. Duplex, Townhouses, Apartments, Detached Homes, Foreclosures & more 780-708-5688
ReplyDeleteEdmonton Real Estate
I will not recommend this builder to anyone. We got our home possession in Feb 2018 and after 3 months follow up we notified builder issues we noted after move. Some of them resolved but for others they are willing to do the fix. i.e. walls on both sides of fridge not vertically align, tiles is master washroom not adjusted properly, garage door panels was sticking out and they hasn't fix it. They promised to do the grading work by end of June but completed at end of August. Deck stairs hasn't been put.
ReplyDeleteIt's nightmare to deal with their office. They don't keep their promise. Very poor customer service.
News flash - BEWARE BUILDING YOUR OWN HOME. Almost ALL Master Builders are the same. We built a home with Daytona Homes many years ago and trust me - never again. Because this was back in the day when the homeowner got a construction key and was able to come and go as much as they wanted - I went to check on things a few weeks before we were to move in. Man, I should have seen the writing on the wall then - I arrived to find a waterfall in the doorway of our dining room. Seems the (sub-standard) plumbing contractor had nicked the water line (attached to the fill valve) in the upstairs toilet. He turned off the water to the unit but neglected to put a sign on the toilet to NOT use it until it was repaired. The finishing painter came in, TURNED THE TOILET WATER ON, USED the toilet, flushed it and walked out. Thank heaven I came in the very next day BUT we were put back several months while the builder ripped out the ruined dining room hardwood, most of the drywall in the finished basement below the dining room, replace several main floor light fixtures (that had filled up with water), replaced carpets and underlay, scrubbed out all the heating vents and ducts to prevent mould, etc., etc., etc. Then when the professional cleaners were in, they turned on the upstairs shower (to clean the tub enclosure) and then we discovered the water line to the shower head had ALSO been nicked because the bedroom on the other side of the wall had a huge half circle of soaked carpet. Another delay while they ripped out and replaced more carpet, underlay, drywall and baseboards on both the main floor and in the fully finished basement. We FINALLY moved in and all seemed well enough until . . . yep you guessed it. First winter and the house always felt cold. We discovered there was NO insulation at the exterior floor joists, NO insulation in the garage ceiling (so our master bedroom and ensuite bathroom are cold enough in winter to hang meat), the furnace was underpowered for the size of the house, the heating vents were badly routed (more bends and turns than necessary which seriously cuts the air flow). One of our lower kitchen cupboards was like a pizza oven - we discovered that for some unexplained reason, there was a heating duct opening under it - which was supposed to have been fitted with a cupboard-base vent into the room but, well, somehow it got forgotten and the kitchen contractor just plunked the lower cupboard unit right over that open vent. And then came the piece-de-resistance. We discovered around year 8 that whoever did the weeping tile connection to the sump used a white, 4-inch indoor PLUMBING tee - to connect either side of the weeping tile (that tubing is 6 inches). It was just "resting" inside either end of the weeping tile, so when the ground shifted, you guessed it. The "T" lifted up and all the water just ran out next to the foundation wall. Now, if they'd scored the weeping tile ends and used ring clamps to at least TRY and join the two properly, we might have escaped the inevitable water flowing under our basement slab and causing a TON of damage when the floor domed - putting our entire two storey out of whack. And Daytona's response? They dragged their heels JUST enough - until the 10 year mark passed and now we can't sue because we're beyond the 10-year Statute of Limitations for home builders. *sigh*
ReplyDeleteDaytona . . . continued:
ReplyDeleteWe are STILL addressing the problems, slooooow lowering of teleposts, we've had to totally rip out the basement ensuite bathroom and still have every door on the vertical plane of the damage so out of plumb so they either don't close or rub the jamb. So, my advice? Either the builder signs an iron clad contract that commits them to multiple, on-going inspections by a professional of YOUR choice and a subsequent agreement to address every single issue - or you will need endless time to chase, check up, pursue, harass and/or follow up for many, many years after your possession date. My next house? A nice, solid, OLDER, pre-built home in an older, quiet neighborhood. I'd rather renovate a solid older home than go through the New Home Nightmare ever again. I did renovations on two houses before this new-built pile-o-crap, so I'm no stranger to the mess. But at least I can control the quality and will KNOW the job has been DONE RIGHT.
Thanks for sharing such wonderful information about home construction, Professional client Visits in Toronto
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing such wonderful information about home construction.Construction Scheduling in Toronto
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you. We built our new home with Avi. Lots of mistakes we found, and still lots of issues are going on. So much depression and I cannot even sleep. Our possession date is coming soon in about a week. I really do not know what to do with this builder..
ReplyDeleteNice post mate, keep up the great work, just shared this with my friendz East Texas custom home builders
ReplyDeleteI moved into my house in 2010 and have had nothing but problems since day 1. From warped countertops to incomplete parging to venting not hooked up on the fireplace. We had to pull up our main floor flooring, just to find there was a couple wet spots on the subfloor that weren't allowed to dry before installing the underlay. This caused mold which we thankfully found early enough and were able to remediate. Our problems got even worse after they incorrectly graded the back yard (which the city claimed was done correctly) so that both neighbors properties drained to the center of ours creating a lake. When we contacted them the response was "you have the grade slip from the city, we don't need to do anything", even though there were no footprints indicating the city actually came to inspect. Then, as we looked closer to the grade slip, we realized that the city just changed every number by 0.1 and claimed it was good. The worst thing i found today, was what i thought was a missing stud in a structural wall holding up the second floor. After opening the drywall up, I found out that the stud was there at one point to pass inspection and then removed afterwards. The nails are still there. Because of this, they needed more backing for drywall so they added a stud beside where the original one was, but it is 18 inches too short and not actually doing anything. This means my supporting wall studs are 48 inches apart. Makes me worry about what else is wrong that is hidden.
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I purchase a new build from them in 2010 and was completely frustrated by my experience. I would never purchase anther product or recommend them to anybody. We knew at turnover there was going to be issues because the house was framed incorrectly, and they would not let us see the repairs and the landscaping was ruined as it was installed before the exterior of the house was completed. I compiled 8 typed pages (Number 8 font) of deficiencies before the 3 month warranty visit. I spoke to all levels of managment including Mr.Avi and could not reach a mutually beneficial resolution to the substandard building practices. They told me during a meeting that they sold the house too cheap and couldn't complete it properly. Here are a few reasons why I am recommending that you avoid them at all cost.
ReplyDeleteThey did not honor their inspection schedule, so we did not get to inspect the house properly while it was being built. Not only did we not have the opportunity to inspect it, I also think that it was inspected by anyone from Homes By Avi. They certainly could not provide photos when I requested it.
We were rushed during the turnover period and they would allow us bring anybody.They assured us that anything we found would be dealt with in the 3 and 12 month warranty visits. We had issues within hours of hand over (Washer drain line was full of concrete and a cold bedroom and basement).
Some of the deficiencies were normal but a lot of the issues were from incomplete work , poor craftmanship and negligence. A one point my boss called me and told me that I needed to step back from my argument with Homes by Avi or it would affect my job. I was so angered by the idea that Homes by Avi was trying to resolve this through back door channels.
Mr. Avi himself also came to my house and reviewed all of the issues after I filed a complaint with the BBB. They offered to enter in negotiations to purchase the house back from us, but I was too stubborn at the time to give up on my first home and I do believe it was to my detriment. I was also angered to learn that BBB considered their poor "just for show" attempt to resolve my complaint the same as actually doing the work and marked my complaint resolved (let me make clear, they did some easy deficiencies, but they would not do any destructive inspections to addresss the framing, air/vapour barrier, flooring and plumbing complaints and put the onus on myself to prove they didn't do the repairs).
Homes By Avi launched a war of attrition and they won. I spent alot of time arguing with them and trying to be civil. They kept trying to pull some sort of "we work in the same industry" story and would go on about how they would try to work with me, but I may have high expectations. Eventually, I had spent so much time trying to get them to complete the deficiencies that it was affecting my whole life. I was completely unhappy and unsatisfied with my new home. It became personal when they crossed the line by going to my employer and then continued to beat around the bush until the warranty period was complete. My choice was to uproot my life and move or let it go and try to fix it myself and move on. It was a very educational lesson from the school of hard knocks, and I would have been better off to get a lawyer after we discovered the concrete on the pipes.
As I continued my career in construction, I have come to realize that the house I purchased from Homes by Avi was not constructed to the plans and it was certainly not better by design. The superintendent did not ensure the trades were competent or ensure the work was being built to design specifications.
I have 13 years’ experience in the construction industy, a Red Seal, and a diploma in Engineering Technology and I feel my warning should carry some weight. I hope this is readable as I had to delete many sections as my comments were too numerous for the webpage to upload. I am still frustrated to this day by my terrible experience with this company.